Thursday, May 28, 2009

Lost Kassicast- Season Finale- Season 5 Theories and Questions

Sorry it took so long to get these out. I’ve been holding off- in the hope of getting more information… Plus, all of my free time has been spent in breaking my toe, painting our kitchen and full bathroom, and doing some serious organizing… So, in between going 100 miles an hour and being on pain killers (for my back and now toe) I haven’t gotten around to finishing this up till now… On another note- I’m really interested in hearing other theories and such- so I’ve included questions and multiple choice  Please send me your thoughts and answers- so we can keep this going a little ways! Also- please send me any questions you have- and I will do my best to answer them- and see if we can get other answers from other people!

1. The tapestry that Jacob created
a. While the style was Egyptian, the writing on it was Greek

b. The writing at the top of the tapestry is from Homer’s Odyssey (by the way- remember that the Odyssey speaks of islands with magical beings, mythical monsters, and interfering gods)
i. The first line reads “May the gods grant thee all that thy heart desires”
1. a lot of people are seeing similarities in this line- to the start of Psalm 20:4 “May he grant you, your heart’s desire…” and Psalm 20:1 “May the Lord answer you in the day of trouble! May the name of the God of Jacob protect you”
ii. The second line “hail to thee, and all welcome, and may gods grant thee happiness” It was in a passage of two separate books and also in the Homeric hymn to Apollo- the phrase was used to greet a stranger and wish him well, whenever the speaker or the greeted stranger arrives from a sea journey.
iii. These first lines are where Odysseus had just washed up on an island with nothing, literally naked, and Nausicaa provided him with clothing and food and ultimately it is from this island that he returns home, to Ithica. The island was called the island of corfu or (also known as) the island of Pheakians. According to Plutarchos (who examined the geography of Homer)- this island was located in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean

c. At the bottom of the tapestry, it says “Only the dead have seen the end of the war” a quote misattributed to Plato

d. The pictures on the tapestry depict a pair of wings outstretched from an encircled Eye of Horus, and what appear to be fifteen long arms emanating like rays out from the eye. The hands at the ends of the arms grope for nine human figures who appear to be at the mercy of the hands, while on either side of them, a king sits on a throne and observes. In the row below, seven human figures dance to the music of a lone harpist on the right, for eight figures total. Four tall water jugs sit on the floor around the dancers. Several rows below that, figures labor to harvest wheat. The row beneath that depicts three heavily crewed ancient Egyptian sailboats debarking from the island, with a statue in view on the island’s shore.
i. In the tapestry, the hands ending from the lines were used in the Egyptian art of the Cult of Aten, created by the Pharaoh Akhenaten. The cult represents one of the earliest known examples of monotheism. The Pharaoh and his wife Nefertiti are seen in reliefs receiving the blessings of the Aten (the sun) in hands
1. The tapestry depicts the sun disk is shown showering blessing onto the people below. But in the legends- only Akhenaten and his direct family could receive these blessings, making it a very exclusive religion, other people could only receive blessings from the sun- through the royal family

e. The tapestry had various series of hieroglyphs as well. – found at the tips of the wings extending from the Eye of Horus, in the two lines in the middle of the tapestry, and in three clusters near the bottom of the tapestry. The hieroglyphs near the Eye of Horus make reference to certain “lords” or “masters”. The two lines of hieroglyphs contain words that are also shown on the Cerberus chamber pillars. The bottom three clusters represent the three Egyptian seasons: Inundation, Winter, and Summer.

2. WHO IS JACOB AND MAN #2? This is a very difficult question- but I’m going to give you some theories and see what you think

a. They are Jacob and Esau from the Bible
i. For those of you- who don’t know the story: Jacob and Esau were twin brothers born to Isaac and Rebekah. They fought even in Rebeka’s womb and God said “The two children inside you will become the fathers of two nations. Just like the two are fighting with each other now, the two nations will struggle with each other. One will be stronger than the other, and the older will serve the younger.” The boys grew up- Esau became a strong and skillful hunter and Jacob was a quiet man, who preferred to stay home. Isaac liked Eau best- but Rebekah liked Jacob best. One day Eau went out for one of his hunting trips. He must have been gone for a few days, because when he came back, he was starving. Esau saw Jacob eating some stew and asked for some of it. Jacob was a schemer, so he said, “sure! I’ll give you some stew- if you give me your birthright” (Esau, being older, would become the head of the household and get more wealth when Isaac died) Esau didn’t care about tomorrow- he was hungry NOW- So, he agreed. Years Later- when Isaac was dying Rebekah and Jacob tricked Isaac into thinking Jacob was Esau- to receive his blessing. But, once Isaac found out he was tricked, he told Esau that he could not bless him now “You will not have the richness of the earth, the dew from heaven won’t be given to you. You will have to live by taking, and you will serve your brother. But one day you will break free” Sound familiar? From that day on- Esau hated Jacob and vowed to kill him.

b. They are God (Man #2) Vs. Satan (Jacob)
i. The colors of the title card at the end of the show were inverted, possibly to suggest that the black and white shirts from the opening scene were inverted from traditional associations
ii. Jacob lives inside the statue, maybe the shadow of the statue is where Man #2 lives, thus making him “He will save us all”

c. They are God (Jacob)Vs. Satan(man #2)
i. Man #2 shows a strong desire to kill Jacob- but can’t- much like the Devil’s desire to kill God.
ii. Man #2’s resentment also seems to stem from a common past, as the Devil was once an angel of the Lord who fell from Heaven
iii. When they saw the Black Rock coming to the Island, Jacob expressed optimism that perhaps humanity was capable of greatness, change, and progress. Man #2, however, was convinced that humans were flawed and corruptible creatures who are easily convince into doing bad things, like eating an apple or killing Jacob
iv. Richard’s response to the question “what lies in the shadow of the statue?” was a Latin phrase that translates to “He who will protect us” or “He who will save us all”- since Jacob is the one who lives beneath the statue, it’s possible that the question refers to Jacob and that he is the salvation of mankind
v. Rick found this: Jacob and Man #2 are using Ben much like God and the Devil used Job in the bible. God told the Devil that people are good, just look at Job, my faithful servant. The devil said let me try to tempt him away and you’ll see. In the scene in Lost, Ben asked Man #2 “Why do you want me to kill Jacob” Man #2 said, “because despite your loyal service to this island, you got cancer, you watched your own daughter gunned down, and your reward for those sacrifices… you were banished from the island. And you did all this in the name of a man you’ve never even met. So the question is, why the hell wouldn’t you want to kill him?” Also notice what Ben said to Jacob when he meets him:

"So now after all this time, you've decided to stop ignoring me? 35 years I've lived on this island and all I've ever heard was your name. Richard would bring me your instructions, all those lists. And I never questioned anything. But when I dared to ask to see you myself, I was told 'you'll have to wait, you’ll have to be patient’. but when he(Locke) asked to see you, he gets marched straight up here as if he were Moses" And then Ben does turn- with Man #2 looking very smug at Jacob- as an “I told you so” way.

d. Jacob and Man #2 are the same person
i. There is only one Jacob- Man #2 is a representation of his own dark side/ other personality
ii. Or they are the physical representations of the island’s (or some ultimate being) conscience. They are able to act out the good and the evil of some high power.

e. They are ancient Egyptian gods.
i. Jacob is Sobek (trying to right the wrongs of the major players of the Lost crew- one of Sobek’s roles was to correct the wrongs caused by Set (seth) (Man #2)
1. Sobek ambiguous nature led some Egyptians to believe that he was a repairer of evil that had been done, rather than a force for good in itself. He was also said to call on suitable gods and goddesses required for protecting people in situations, effectively having a more distant role, nudging things along, rather than taking an active part.

ii. Jacob is Set, Man #2 is Horus
1. This would make Jacob- bad and Man #2 good as Set was the god of Chaos
2. Set was older brother to Osiris and was jealous of Osiris and his wife Isis… Set kills Osiris- then Isis gets pregnant with Osiris corpse (I’m trying to sugar coat this stuff- but most of mythology is not pretty- so this was the best I could sugar coat it… if you knew most of the story about Osiris and Isis conceiving a child… well, let’s just say- when I learned about it when I was 15- I thought I was going to be sick) and has Horus. Horus and Set became “like brothers” and natural enemies- always fighting to the death.

iii. Jacob is apep, Man #2 is Ra
1. there were yearly rituals the Egyptians used to ward against Apep; spitting on him, defiling him with the felt foot, shackling him, using a knife to smite him, and finally laying fire on him.
2. Ra, in the disguised form of a cat, slays Apep.
3. Tales of Apep’s battles against Ra were elaborated during the New Kingdom. Since nearly everyone can see that the sun is attacked by a giant snake during the day, every day, story tellers said that Apep must lie just below the horizon. This appropriately made him a part of the underworld, which attacked the sun each night. In some stories, Apep waited for Ra in a western mountain called Bakhu, where the sun set, and in others Apep lurked just before dawn. The wide range of Apep’s possible locations gained him the title World Encircler. Myths say that Apep was trapped in the underworld, because he had been evil and had been imprisoned for his battles.

f. MULTIPLE CHOICE>>>> WHO ARE THEY? (you can have more than one answer- but you must explain it)
i. Jacob and Esau
ii. Jacob=God; Man #2=Devil
iii. Jacob=Devil; Man #2=Devil
iv. The Original Evil and Good (not one specific person- but in a form)
v. The Island
vi. One Person
vii. Egyptian Gods (which ones?)
viii. Other (explain) 

3. Jacob and Man #2- Good or Evil?

a. In the first scene Man #2 wore a black shirt while Jacob wore white. The colors have been used many times in Lost to show the battle between good and evil- the forces of light and dark

b. Rick-“Man #2 knows that bringing more people to the island is a bad idea but Jacob keeps doing. Jacob gave Sawyer the pen so he could finish his revenge quest. He keeps little Katie from learning a lesson about stealing. He might have made it impossible for Jin and Sun to have a kid when he touched them. If you remember, Jin and Sun said they might try having a kid on the honeymoon. Jacob didn’t want them to have kids because it would keep them from coming to the island. He gets Nadia killed by bringing Sayid over to him which makes Nadia stop walking and turn around. So anyway, look out for Jacob ”

c. I don’t think Jacob is bad

d. If Jacob is from ‘Jacob and Esau’ maybe he inherited the island under false pretences

e. Man #2 spends years finding a loop hole- so he can go back and have Jacob murdered

f. Knowing this information and the information from #2- here’s another Multiple Choice
i. Jacob is Good, Man #2 is Evil
ii. Jacob is Evil, Man #2 is Good (Rick’s Vote)
iii. They’re Both Evil
iv. They’re Both Good
v. They are neither good nor evil- yet a portion of both (Kassie’s Vote)

4. Who/What is the Smoke Monster?
a. Jacob
b. Man #2 (Rick’s Vote)
c. The Judge- neither Good nor Evil (Kassie’s Vote)
d. God
e. Darth Vader
f. Other- insert your thought here

5. Rose and Bernard’s cabin looked very similar to Jacob’s cabin

a. Encircled with ash from the cabin that Ilana burned to the ground? Was a question- but doesn’t make sense- as the ash wouldn’t have been there before she burnt down the cabin… I think people are getting confused by the time line

b. But remember- in Locke’s dream- Horace was building the cabin for him and ‘his missus’- we’re assuming after Rose and Bernard would have been there- as Horace has been married for 1-2 years only at this point.

c. Also- the main thought- which I agree with- is that the cabin was put there- by Jacob- to keep Man #2 imprisoned. Now this brings up multiple questions and points
i. Ilana then went to the cabin searching for Man #2… to kill him?
ii. Who put the piece of tapestry on the wall- showing the statue and where he was heading?
iii. When did Man #2 get out- saying he was trapped of course- Was it Hurley or Locke that opened the protective circle (as they both fell- next to the cabin at one point- when startled)
iv. Ilana stated that ‘He hasn’t been here for a long time, other’s have been using the cabin’
1. How Long?
2. Christian and Claire- which would imply that they aren’t related or on the same side as Man #2?
3. Rose and Bernard?
v. It is said that ashes and salt have been used for centuries as symbols of either purity or preservation and are effective barriers against the evil or supernatural world
1. So, if Man #2 was a prisoner- and the ashes were used to keep him in- it would imply that he was evil
2. BUT- if he were not a prisoner- it would imply HE put the ashes there to keep evil out

6. When Ben was in the cave and confronted by Alex/smokie… We didn’t see Locke- Locke had wondered off- in search of something to help Ben back up the hole- and only reappeared when the ‘vision’ was over

7. One thought- is that Man #2 was killed long ago- and became the smoke monster. He was then trapped in that house with the ash on the ground and could only leave the cabin as the smoke monster. Now since the soil is broken, he can leave as a human being (in a ‘pod’)

8. Rick and I both thought Bernard looked like Moses- coming out of the jungle with a staff and his shirt billowing out behind him- and the grey beard

9. Who are Adam and Eve?
a. Rose and Bernard
b. Penny and Desmond
c. Kate and Jack
d. Juliet and Sawyer
e. Miles and Hurley
f. Other

10. Why did they need such a big box to carry Locke??

11. Maybe… is the Locke we see dead in the box- not really Locke either…

12. Maybe… it’s a magic box… which would make it a little humorous… that after all the “Magic Box” stuff, that Locke would end up in one!

13. When Sun found the DS ring
a. Charlie had left it there for Claire and Aaron- before he died- if you don’t remember
b. It actually stands for Dexter Stratton- Charlie’s Great Grandfather- and they named Drive Shaft after Dexter Stratton. Also- a far fetched theory is that Dexter Stratton was on the Black Rock

14. Touchy Touchy Jacob…

a. He touched everyone we saw in the flashback
i. Seemingly to get them back to the island
ii. Katie- Touched her nose while telling her not to steal anymore… but did buy her a lunchbox- possibly teaching her that punishment isn’t necessary
iii. Jack- Touched his finger- while giving him an Apollo bar and telling him- that sometimes ‘They just need a little push’
iv. Sawyer- Touched his head- and giving him a pen during his parent’s funeral.. – giving sawyer the pen to finish his revenge letter
v. Hurley- patted his shoulder and telling him that he’s blessed not cursed- thus causing Hurley to go back to the island
vi. Locke- Touched his shoulder- after Locke fell out of the window… Did he save his life- bring him back from the dead- or just wake him up?
vii. Sayid- He tapped him on the shoulder and asked for directions. Did Jacob kill Nadia or save Sayid’s life?
viii. Jin and Sun- He touched their shoulders and wished them a happy marriage at their wedding- Did he cause their inability to have children?

b. We think that when he said “They’re coming” he meant the people he touched

c. This also scared the bjesus out of Man#2/Flocke – what is it about this group that could scare him?

15. So.. on that subject… When Jacob said “They’re coming” Who do you think he means?
a. Kate, Jack, Sawyer, Sayid, Hurley, Jin (our vote)
b. Ilana and Co.
c. Richard and the Others
d. Dharma
e. Rose, Bernard, and Vincent
f. The next group of people- that we haven’t met yet… first there was black rock, then others, then military, then dharma, then plane… etc
g. Other

16. Juliet’s flashback- has a lot of people talking. When we saw other people’s flashbacks- it was evident that it was a flashback- IE the 70’s or 80’s. But with Juliet’s- their home, clothing, and hairstyles were all current. Was there more to Juliet than we knew?

17. On the bookshelf in Juliet’s flashback- there is a book called “Mysteries of Ancient Americas”… just an easter egg…. But the book was published in 1986- but Juliet’s timeline- should put us in the late 70’s.. so another reason people are pushing #16

18. In the hospital- where Jacob visits Ilana- they spoke Russian

19. Yet- the secret answer to the question of What Lies In The Shadow Of The Statue- is in Latin and says “He who will protect/save us all”

20. Is Richard Alpert a “god” that has been called upon from Jacob (assuming he’s an Egyptian god)… Alpert has always been an observer, but has also protected people. He takes his orders from Jacob. And he always has on awesome Egyptian gyliner

21. Juliet was holding her tummy- and Bernard tried to push her into having some tea… like he knew something… It’s a thought that Juliet is pregnant… Of course- I think she’s dead- so that defeats the purpose- but what do you think? Pregnant or not?

22. When Alpert went to see Locke as a child- Locke chose the knife- instead of the compass… Funny- because the knife Ben uses to kill Jacob- looks just like that knife

23. The knife that Jacob was using to gut the fish at the beginning of the episode is the same knife that was holding the piece of tapestry to the wall in the cabin

24. The statue… While ABC has come out and said it’s the statue is the Egyptian goddess Taweret- there is still much debate- even with me as…

a. Taweret
i. She was the demon-wife of Apep- the original god of evil (interesting…) and was seen as one who protected against evil by restraining it
ii. When Set took over the position of Apep- Taweret became seen as Set’s concubine- and she held him back on a chain
iii. She was a composite of all the things the Egyptians feared- her whole body was a hippopotamus, had the arms and legs of a lion, and the back of a crocodile…
iv. She was also portrayed as a pregnant woman- with the animal-compound, she was also seen with pendulous breat, a full pregnant abdomen, and long human hair…
v. While the hair and the ears and snout might fit- it really doesn’t seem like the statue has the body of a pregnant hippo and the arms and legs of a lion… does it?
vi. She often carried one ankh and a knife
vii. Early on- the Egyptians saw her as less aggressive and began to view her as being a mother and a deity of protection in pregnancy and childbirth.
viii. All of the personality fits- but the physical just doesn’t…

b. Sobek
i. Now even though this isn’t what ABC is saying- it makes more since to both Rick and I
ii. First of all- it seems to be a man- not a woman- by the clothing (wearing a garment worn by gods) to the shape of the form… doesn’t look like a pregnant hippo to me
iii. He is a man with a crocodile head, a full headdress and a toga, carrying one ankh (not two like the statue) and a staff
iv. Sobek first came out of the waters of chaos to create the world.
v. Eventually- Sobek came to symbolize the Nile and the fertility that it brought to the land and his status became more ambiguous.
vi. He was also considered the army’s patron- and represented as strength and power.
vii. He was also a repairer of evil that had been done…

c. Isis was another Goddess originally thought to be the statue
i. The mother of Horus and the wife of Osiris (the judge of the dead in the afterlife)
ii. Again… Goddess not God
iii. And she wore a full bodied dress… not a toga

d. My original favorite theory was that it was Bastet (who had the head of a lioness and the body of a human.. Again- now this is thrown out- because the body looks more like a God not a Goddess

e. Anubis
i. This was the most popular vote- back in “LaFleur” when we saw the back of the statue for the first time.
ii. Anubis also wore the traditional garb- held one Ankh in his hand and had large cat like ears and a long human main
iii. My argument at the time was that the statue’s ears weren’t nearly as big as Anubis’

i. Taweret
ii. Sobek
iii. Isis
iv. Bastet
v. Anubis
vi. Another God
vii. A combination of two or more gods (I like this)
viii. A god just made up for the show
ix. Alpert
x. Darth Mal

25. Multiple Choice When we see the flash at the end of the show-
a. Jughead Blew Up (my vote)
b. It was the Time Jump- like before they got stuck in the 70’s (possibly caused by the magnetic incident
c. Juliet Died
d. The magnetic reaction caused the tunnel to explode
e. Something else- such as a truck- exploded by being pulled into things
f. Nothing happened
g. Other

26. Did They Change the future
a. Tell me Yes or No and why- and I’ll do my best to ‘argue’ with you  friendly manner of course 
b. My thought is NO- they caused the current future that they already live in. They are stuck in one dimension- so officially they cannot change the future- or else they would never go back to change the future in the first place- and they would still be in the place they are to begin with. It’s the common ‘Grandfather theory’ which can only really be changed if we’re talking multiple dimensions… So, long story short- by going back in time, setting off the Jughead, they end up causing their own future

That’s all folks. Again- sorry it took me so long to get out- this was some serious information to get organized! Please send me your thoughts, theories, and answers- and watch your email for updates through-out the summer!


  1. 2F- I'm not sure what I believe, but I don't think Jacob and Man#2 are Jacob and Esau from the bible. Just doesn't seem like LOST would bring those characters into the story, nor would those actual biblical characters carry themselves the way Jacob and Man#2 do. I also do not think they are God vs Satin or any form of that. Again, I don't think LOST plans on moving the story into something that has to do with Christianity. I do believe that there is a chance they have something to do with Egyptian Gods but I don't think they are any that we actually know (Ra, Set, Sobek, etc)

    The ones that I think they could be are...
    Good vs Evil
    Some kind of beings or deities exclusive to the island
    They represent Fate/Destiny (Man#2) vs Free-Will (Jacob)... (This one is my favorite)
    To elaborate, the whole show has seemed to follow this battle of fate vs free-will in my opinion. And in relation to this, Jacob gave everyone a choice when he went to see them off island and told them they had the choice to do whatever they wanted. He also told this to Ben before getting stabbed. It seems that Richard and several others seem to believe in this as well.
    Man#2 however seems to be tied with Destiny and has followers such as Eloise and Locke always talking about destiny as well. Daniel is the one person who changed from Destiny to Free Will and thus, he was shot by his mother who is clearly a believer of Destiny. Not sure how it all ties together, but that's what I'm going with.

    3F- If my answer for 2F is correct, it is hard to say whether either is evil or good, although for right now, man#2 seems to be more evil. If they do represent fate vs free-will, then fate is trying to take free-will out of the equation.

    4- On a spoiler page I was unfortunately told about, the smoke monster was said to be fate, correcting time lines and whatnot. But even if I believe my answer for 2F, I'm not sure about this one. The Smoke Monster does however seem to be tied to Man#2 and not Jacob.

    5- We do know that Rose and Bernard's cabin is not there near the beach when Flight 815 crashes originally, so either we haven't seen the alternate time line created by Jack and co yet and the cabin still exists in the new present, or perhaps the jughead blew it over. Either way, I don't think it's tied to Horace's or "Jacob's" cabin.

    6&7- We didn't see Locke, but I could have sworn we heard him yell down "What's happening" even after the smoke monster began to come into the room. Again, I think Man#2 and the smoke monster are tied to each other, but I'm not certain yet in what way. It is possible that that they are 1 in the same.

    8-Bernard TOTALLY looked like Moses! LOL... I love him with the beard!

    9-I'm not sure on this, and having just watched the episode where we see Adam and Eve and Jack finds the white and black stones in one of their pockets, I'm still not any closer to knowing for sure. Jack states it would take 45-50 years to deteriorate like that, but perhaps on the island, it is sped up due to tropical conditions. 1977 is 27 years prior to 2004. And what, no choice for Sawyer and Kate? lol For now I'm sticking with Penny and Dezmond until proved otherwise

    10-Where'd that box come from anyways... didn't he come in a coffin?

    11-Intersting thought... I'd really hate for the actual Locke to not have anything to do with the rest of the story!

    12-Man#2 apparently absorbed all of Locke's memories, knowing what happened off the island and whatnot... even if the real Locke was in the box.

    13-I don't know why that's so farfetched... the Island seems to bring people back, or never really let them go and also seems linked to peoples families. (Jack's grandpa, Penny, etc) Plus, how does little Charlie play into this? There's still some that think he is Charlie Pace, or Charles Widmore... either way, even to honor Charlie, why give him the name of your nemesis father?

  2. 14-It's hard to say... I felt Jacob was all about free will rather than fate and gave them all choices as to how to lead their life. I didn't feel he caused any changes per say.

    15-I'm not convinced he meant Jack and co, but with this show anything is possible.
    I do think he meant whoever Bram is talking about when he says "The team that's going to win"
    Maybe he meant Penny and Dezmond... lol

    16&17- I hadn't really noticed Juliet's flashback looking more recent than it should have, but that is an interesting thought.

    20- I'm dying to know the real truth behind Richard Alpert! I don't think he's a god, but he's clearly tied to Jacob in some way and has remained the same age because of that. I'm sticking with the guess of many that he came on the black rock.

    24-I think it is an Egyptian statue for sure, but I'm not sure how it plays into the story exactly. I do know that it is said to be a god or goddes of fertility, and in the present it has been destroyed and people can no longer have children on the island. But for fun, I'll say it's Richard... or maybe Walt, lol

    25&26-The Jughead definitely blew up! Only question now is whether it changed anything in the future/present, or if it is simply "the incident". This would have killed Juliett in that timeline for sure. Because of the electro-magnetism being released, I'm interested in the possibility that it was just that, a time jump, or something related to those 2 things. I'm leaning toward a belief where things can be changed, yet things keep happening to keep the timeline the same. (i.e. Daniel, the incident, etc) I also still think that present New Othertown seems different than the one that was deserted, even after Keamy's team rolled through there. It had the Dharma symbols still up and the 1970's recruits still pictured on the wall.

    Hope to see a reply to this, and can't wait for season 6! Just sad it will be the last one!!!

  3. Flight 447 went down in the Atlantic Ocean, and while I mourn the loss of life and the tragedy of the crash, I couldn't help but think of LOST when it happened as they could not find it for a while. Also take the 1st number of 447, then add the 1st 2 numbers, then add all 3 numbers .... 4, 8, 15 .... Whoa!

  4. Also about flight 447 ... 4*4= 16 amd 4*4+7= 23